Session 133 – 10/23/77

Greetings to all here present now. We have had just returned from our most enjoyable expedition in the West. It was a interesting moment for your questions/development. Just think that the whole country is your background, your backyard. In reference to this particular move, it is a interesting again to note a psychic awareness and development that it would partake and develop in the east areas, also thinking of future plans to come in order to establish a residence and a former center location in this area. It takes awhile before manifestations of these moments but remember in every plce, place visited, it sows the seeds of consciousness to be dealt and developed and progressed forward. It was interesting to note that there is changes to come of great rapport of development in consciousness of growth. It is a awareness on a spiritual level that would be coming in and taking over for the product and corporate ingenuity enterprise of new and sensitive ideas to express the spirit. We are pleased to make these preparations in future time to come in order that the right and proper aspects in place be designated. We are now receptive and ready for your particular questions.

IS: Why is it that I love the desert so much?

FORCES: This is a intuitive and instinctive quality within you because it opens up your psychic channels within your particular body. Deserts have a aspect of opening up those who are psychic and receptive and their channel systems of vibrations become aware and open in order to receive. Also other particular lifetimes mostly catering into the deserts, places of development also in particular lifetime not directly involved with the Arabs but the Arabians and also the English Desert Fox or the aspects of the French forget-me-nots. Question.

IS: Thank you very much. Now the will, is there something else that we should put in or that we can put in that we have not put in or not been able somehow to put in?

FORCES: As far as denoting the exact or the expression of the spiritual commitment, we foresaid or say that individuals who are entering in or upon the spiritual path of development should meditate in the forms prescribed at least twice a day. This could be put into it and be adequate, otherwise if you wish to retract it from the Will of Them, the other forces of development will take over and work with it in an indirect way.

IS: But it is better if we could put in the twice a day meditation?

FORCES: If you with to insert it into the understanding of it, it would be alright but remember the will is something very tricky dealing with human battlement and consciousness of mind and sometimes after discussions, you will know in your heart what to do.

IS: Thank you very much. And the dream that I had this morning?

FORCES: This would represent the tremendous amount of work that is still ahead and the development and putting it into a power of expression and what would be said discipline of expression in order to develop it and bring it into manifestation on a worldly level.

IS: Thank you very much, and the dream with the horses I have understood?

FORCES: This is interpreted quite adequately as far as expressing the energy within this particular house and allowing it to be developed in a creative force-field and expression.

IS: Thank you very much.

Q: Could you give us the mathematical equation for chapter 26 of Leviticus?

FORCES: How would you like it?

Q: Ah, anyway you want to give it.

FORCES: It is a mathematical equation of one plus one equals two…we would represent it as number 38 times 14 and square that by 1072.


Q: Does that represent a part of the pyramid?

FORCES: Yeah… The pyramid is constructed within the mathematical square of the force-field of solar energy therefore it is perfectly pi equals the square root they say, but in reality it is a new system of understanding … yes, it is a mathematical square of the pyramid taken on the sides of the pyramid at the base in which… to understand this adequately, it would take you at least 4 years of college, and 2 and a half years of elementary school, one year of kindergarten.


FORCES: Simply the space within the pyramid represents the context, the convex of the force of space. If you could analyze the amount of space within the middle of the pyramid that would give you the answer of twenty-eight thousand four hundred seventy-two square feet, give or take an inch or so.


Q: Could you tell me what happened Saturday night?

FORCES: Saturday night…

Q: When I had…

[phone call interrupted]

FORCES: You seem to be catching us in the middle of it all. Saturday night is what would be considered as like entering into a force-field of transition from the old to the new, new ideas and expressions and industrial work and elevation of the mind should take part and move you forward out of the physical body. Question.

Q: Can you tell me what Tom Bombadil represents?

FORCES: Hm…yeah he would represent the creative divine force within all of us.

Q: At the Last Supper, after the body and blood, it says in the Bible that Jesus and the disciples and the apostles sung a hymn, can we know what hymn it was?


Q: You told us? Thanks.

FORCES: You will find the hymn and not as a hymn but as a Psalm, you will find the Psalm in the Bible, and you will find it listed in the Bible.

Q: Thank you.

FORCES: 124 we like a lot. 64 we also like.

IS: 68?

FORCES: 68 is one that is very developed.

IS: It does talk about today’s planes doesn’t it?

FORCES: Uh-huh. That’s why it is very developed.

Q: The thoughts I had in the meditation room this morning, are those thoughts desired to manifest and create, are those correct or are they incorrect thoughts, or is it something for the future?

FORCES: You can toss a coin up in the air and come up with the right answer. You must find the answer within your own deep self that this honesty and the creativity of the expression of the energies within you would give you the answer as being productive and creative as best as possible. If done right, it will flourish and develop and move on forward to other things. Remember, people, you are never in one thing; you are always moving forward into other items so let us be conscious of moving forward into other items, that we might understand that no sooner do we move, but we are from the present into the future, and no longer in the present, for the present becomes the past. But let us not become, stay in one place, it is not such a good place to stay in if you’re caught in one place.

Q: Thank you. I understand it is not like a limit to express gods?

FORCES: Why? It is infinitesimal; it is without end and without measurement. It’s more expressions one after the other always comes, eternal, one after another always comes, eternal, one after the other it’s the most fun game you could ever experience.

Q: It’s feasible then to think the way I was thinking right?

FORCES: Let us go on with the other questions now.

Q: Thank you.

Q: Could you tell us about group’s incarnation of the American Indians, what was our mission and what was achieved?


FORCES: You want that in a thousand words or less? American Indians, known as the Wahatoosey Indians, also known as the Pincho , Pincho Indians, ah Peecho-Peecko-Pincho Indians. It’s not that funny; it’s very serious. Also known as the Yodels … the Yokels, Yokel-Yodel, the Yodel-Yokel, kinda Gushe-Gongey. They were known as Yodels … the Yodels. He asked the question; I didn’t ask it. Also, you would find very strong remnants with the Saskatchewan area, Ohio remnants. Well, all of these tribes of different nationalities are interwoven. Iroquois, very strong remnants, were all interwoven across the American country, ah continent, even entering into Canada and South America. Strong beliefs are still needed to be developed, mouth teachings in this particular group are still being developed, special ceremonial and internal rights are still being created and forced forward for other expressions in other lives to come. Otherwise, without making it too complicated, you can see all over the map.

Q: So, we were in… each, like, different tribes at one time or at separate times?

FORCES: You would say different tribes of a particular span of time.

IS: Were all the males, males and the females, females?

FORCES: Yes, relatively so, yes. Um-hmm.

IS: That includes Hotep and Miriam?

FORCES: Um-hmm. Yes, Um-hmm.

IS: Did Miriam have fairly recently an Indian incarnation?

FORCES: Oh, she really takes to the tomahawk a lot.


Q: Was Tom Crazy Horse?

FORCES: Oh, Tom’s not crazy. I don’t know about his house… We are gonna say…lets not answer that at the moment because the fifth amendment has to be taken on this, even on that in this country. It does not matter who was what in crazy hinkey. What’s important is what we’re doing now, what we have (?).

Q: Thank you. The Indians seem much more spiritual, say, in general, than the white people are. How come all this is happened to the Indians that they’ve gotten all wiped out by the white people?

FORCES: They didn’t really get wiped out like a big raid can came by, no. They got put into a particular place where they would have to discipline and become more receptive and refined of the spirit cause you must remember before the fall, the Indian people they didn’t take the spiritual qualities too strongly and their ceremonies became basically on a physical level and then they gravitated from the ceremonies, celebrating too much around them and forgetting what the ceremonies originally were instituted for, and in which case when the tribes of the Indian forces were being destroyed they reverted back into their spiritual…original spiritual development and progression and essence of taking from the ceremony what they needed. What would be a classic example would be the spirit dance in which they would dance and dance in a circle round and round and round they go where they stopped on the floor everyone knew. Yeah, they danced and danced and danced for hours until they communicated with them, the spiritual world, and then they fell down and this was near the end of their down, downfall. Which makes them more receptive now to the spiritual laws and through their arrogance and fighting God, got an indirect way of forcing to go to God, you could call them God’s chosen people. Question.

IS: Then are they involved today also in all these ceremonies for real?

FORCES: Yes, they are trying to get back into the ceremony and seeing the spiritual food, the younger generations are already after fighting the system and getting away from their depressions and their poverty. The older folks now are only into the spiritual side, trying to instill the young ones to carry it on.

IS: Will they?

FORCES: Some of them will come back and carry it on instinctively, in all of them. No matter how you look at it, they’re still hiding.

IS: Then, all this, is it possible that while they’re doing all those shows for the white people, for the tourists, they’re really in enacting parts of their own ceremonies for real?

FORCES: Oh, they’re doing that, exactly right. The more they do it, the more power they can accumulate.

IS: Thank you.

Q: In chapter 26 of Leviticus what does it mean when it says “My soul,” the words when it’s saying, and the lark said “My soul will not abhor you and my soul will abhor you,” what, who is “my soul”?

FORCES: It is representing to a true consciousness of the elevation of spirit within man that God has put there from the beginning of time.

Q: Like the Christ spirit?

FORCES: Correct.

Q: Thank you. Also could we know about the incidents that Isis was telling about by Sarah the other day, about the child that was born in Puerto Rico?

FORCES: These qualities do happen in which the spirit world tries to enter into the earth and warn people of the a coming disasters.

IS: So it really happened?

FORCES: Chances are it’s early struggle, yes.

Q: And it was something you brought? I mean how?

FORCES: Something that was brought into the element of Mary the mother for the doctors of that area, to shake them from their mental trips and logical mores of analyzation.

IS: When you say “Chances are,” does it mean it’s like a different category of, a different department that you are not directly involved in, but of course, you have access to find out from co-workers. Is it something like that?

FORCES: We’ll say that could be correct, yes.

IS: Thank you.

Q: Are you ah Chester?

FORCES: I am just the one ah whose speaking tonight so that you can get knowledge and power of the teacher, that’s all.

Q: But you don’t get the pay though?

FORCES: I should hope so, just to get the pay for doing what he has to do in his way.

Q: Is it because of our Indian incarnations, that there is strong attraction to the (?)?

FORCES: Yeah, that could be (?). Correct.

Q: For the last couple of months my eyes were constantly, constantly red and watery and I’m thinking is there “What’s going on with my eyes?” is there anything I can do about it? Or do I need to do anything about it?

FORCES: Yes, you should rest the eyes. Down in the basement, there should be more lighting for you and also resting the eyes with warm water and boric acid, or something boric, Epsom salts… I don’t know…


FORCES: I would hate the salt in it. Just rest your eyes, sleeping pills would be good. And cut a piece of ham, and put it on the eyes for 15 minutes, would do you a wonder. Rest, that’s all.

IS: How about teabags?

FORCES: Yeah, put on teabags. Just rest the eyes and not strain them too much.

Q: Tom presented each of the women with a copper bracelet …

FORCES: Yeah, that’s awfully nice.

Q: the significance and the ah …

FORCES: Yeah, it was my idea to give it to you, you know.

Q: Thank you.

IS: Love it.

FORCES: Copper bracelets are old as the hills I mean, that their intrigue. Ah the copper bracelets are a they date back to a long time in ceremonial reward for the female princess of the tribe. You know that a if a woman came … well actually if you put on the well if you put on the left hand a bracelet a copper bracelet, it means something entirely different from if you would put it on the right hand … the woman of, the squaw puts the bracelet on the left hand, ah well nobody likes that you know because nobody likes an arrogant squaw, you know what I mean? Unless she puts it on the left hand to say she’s available, you know what I mean? And the more bracelets she has then, the more available she wants to be you know what I mean. And they had a unspoken word in the tribe that was ah, was called the ah well…well she’s is to make available by putting the bracelets, the more on her arm, the more she came known to be available, ah available squaw, that’s what they called her. Now the female who puts the bracelets on the right hand, ah it is a whole different number all together because it’s dignified, you know what I mean, ah it’s supposed to be class. Ah now here’s how it goes ah, the, each member of the tribe has a female and each female is given a bracelet by the husband, you understand um-huh? And the husband gives the bracelet when the squaw gets married to him as a sign of… You might understand it, you might not understand it, sometimes, it is not handed down to the people because some things are lost in the transition of tribes … customs. Now if the chief gives the squaw a bracelet then, oh well huh, huh, huh, then their life is made you know, paved with golden ah corn egg shells, you know what I mean…like poppy seeds. Now, what happens is during the ceremonies the squaws go and dance around the fires and then they have the bracelets on, one for their wives, one and one for their husbands and one for, if the chief gives one, one for the chief, you know? Now, the idea is that, of course, you have the one with the right bracelets on the right hand, people just don’t bother with that, that type of squaw, you know? It’s like a…on the right hand, right? So, on one of the hands they have the bracelets, on the, or was it the left hand that the, yeah the chief puts it on the left hand, right um-huh no, no right hand no no, no the partner no the, the available squaw puts it on the right hand.

IS: The left, you said on the left hand the available.

FORCES: Oh yeah I did that’s right. Ah yeah on the left hand the available squaw puts it on her no. It’s on this hand here, puts the (?) on this hand, this hand, puut it on this hand. That’s the available squaw. So on the right hand, now don’t get me confused it’s very difficult to understand all this. What I’m trying to say to you all, on the right hand during the ceremonies when the princess or the squaws dances around the ceremony fire, the more the spirit entities enter into the squaw they enter it through the bracelets, you understand? Now the evil demons enter into the left hand, into the bracelets and this crazy maniac happens. Now the good spirits enter into the right hand which is bracelets on the right hand. Now the more the squaw is favored upon the troops or favored upon good things to happen, other squaws take off their bracelets and hand it to the one whose the most kindest or the most receptive or the most sensitive or patient or who gave much to the tribe. The more bracelets she has on her hand, the more she’s favored by the spirits.

IS: And is this alloy of copper really a transmitter?

FORCES: Oh. Definitely. The spirits move nicely with copper.

IS: Is it spirits or the forces?

FORCES: A spirit force.

IS: And the markings on this particular bracelet?

FORCES: Let us say they represent the life, ah power of life.

IS: Oh that’s why it looks almost like a human body shaped with a big head? Or something like.. No they’re regular both sides… Thank you very much.

Q: And, could you tell me ah when I, on Friday when that man ran into me, ah I had something that went… I feel like I saw myself laying down for a second before I got up, is that why, when you describe when you, like, fall down the stairs and sometimes you see stars like…

FORCES: Yeah, definitely your astral body was jerked out of your physical body and you saw your physical body lying on the ground. Also, you needed a knocking down. You get kind of twisted now and then.

RU: Thank you.

Q: And I understand that with the black man is like… desires, and it was a black man that knocked me down and that’s desires that knocked me down.

FORCES: Correct.

Q: In John, the one written of as that other disciple who visited the sepulcher, who was that?

FORCES: Ah Thomas. Um-hmm.

Q: Can you tell us anything about Custard, and did he kill himself before the Indian battle?

FORCES: Must be Indian week. Ah Custard…did he kill himself before…no, it such a coward, he couldn’t kill himself…in all possibilities, he might have killed himself or had a soldier kill him but he wouldn’t do that to himself.

Q: Why wasn’t he chopped up?

FORCES: Da-wha…

Q: Or was he killed? It’s said he wasn’t.

FORCES: Well, there was a certain love between Custard and, and, and…well see, it was a it was such a mess that it wasn’t really supposed to have happened, and he just, such a dummy…he walked right into it without…he wasn’t…it wasn’t supposed to happen.

Q: He wasn’t a good person he was as he’s pictured?

FORCES: No, he wasn’t the best person in the world but he had a job to do and he became arrogant and lost all respect.

Q: Thank you.

Q: Were they being superstitious of him, maybe that’s why they didn’t need…

FORCES: No, no, no, no. The Indians recognized a spirit force within the white man. See the Indians had more love for the white
man than the white man had for the Indians.

Q: The movie last night would be close to being correct as I think, the craziness of the whole Western situation as it was happening?

FORCES: Well, it was quite crazy.

Q: So like a lot of things were just, like you said, never meant to happen but just happened?

FORCES: Lack of communication on emotions and desires and all sorts of nonsense.

Q: But ah like the Indians were in a sense, even though they were deserving of what they had gotten, there was never really a fight, in other words, the white people, the white man, had the guns obviously and the Indians had nothing. Is that correct? Or is it…

FORCES: See, the Indians could have had a lot but they became proud and they didn’t follow the spirit and they the lost track in which the spirit was guiding them. Did you know that the spirit would guide each particular chief to tell them to move on or to move on to another area before a battle would happen?

Q: If this was done through…was it done through the dreams or the ceremonies?

FORCES: It was done through a medium dance by the witch doctor and the medicine man and all sorts of psychics in the tribe.

IS: And they wouldn’t listen to these instructions?

FORCES: Well, some of the times they left, other times the chief became too arrogant and wanted to fight.

Q: So what characteristic, or who was in previous existence, the person who we know as Sitting Bull that would enable him to be receptive always?

FORCES: What do you mean?

Q: Well, he was the only surviving chief, really, that lead his people out of the whole…

FORCES: Well, it stands to reason he was being receptive to what was being told him.

Q: But, do we know him as a character in history before , that would give us an understanding of why he was more receptive?

FORCES: You mean the past lives?

Q: Yeah.

FORCES: Oh, why didn’t you say that? Well, let’s say that ah…let’s say that he helped Alexander the Great try to work through, and in parts of Ghengis Khan, which would become receptive to the spirit.

Q: Was he the entity?

FORCES: There are many questions that can be answered properly but we, that’s not a proper question to be answered…ah let us say, no.

Q: Was Isis the Desert Fox?

FORCES: Oh, hmm Who…

Q: Rommel?

FORCES: No no no no no… not at all, not at all.. It’s that the um… (?) has happened to her in that particular lifetime. Question.

Q: The dreams that I had last night, can you help me understand?

FORCES: Yeah take time, sit down, take two bromos, Ah, it work out, ah yes ah remember that this aspect is what will ever be in front of you and will progress in a sideway development, side, side-stepping, ah Like a creative force that will always be there that must be used adequately and manifested in front of you to, ah, ah the force like this tremendous energy that’s coming down through you must be used in a creative expression so that you would have like a balance and it is like circumvents around that ah idea.

Q: And when the force is incorrectly used…is there a particular type of elemental or spirit force that possesses me?

FORCES: Well, it’s not a possession, it’s that you allow yourself to retreat into different aspects of ah you know, these elementals thoughts can be just by rising up from it.

Q: And would they, would ah this misapplication come from a previous existence, or working out a karmetic pattern?

FORCES: Basically, from the Incas.

Q: And can you help me understand how I misapplied the force then, or whatever…?

FORCES: Well, lets not go into that. It just needs to be worked out, at a certain , let’s not go into that. Ah some sacrifices were done and, and lust well that, near to that what had happened. Question.

IS: What was the food, if it still exists today…

FORCES: With the manna?

IS: No, okay the manna. We know the manna you already told us, it was a dough, the dew on the earth.

FORCES: Well, go ahead with your question.

IS: What was the food that Esau ate, the food that Jacob gave to Esau gave to eat, the red, red porridge, or whatever…pottage?

FORCES: It’s what, what would be called the manna, part of the force of the manna coming down utilized in a, a, utilized in a farina-type way.

IS: How come it was red?

FORCES: It was red because the zinc quality that was within and certain clay substance.

IS: Then was the manna in the desert also red?

FORCES: Ah, white, sometimes pink and sometimes red.

IS: So it’s just different places where…

FORCES: The elements around, the dirt elements make the food color.

IS: So it’s not that Jacob cooked something it’s just Jacob was less lazy by just going out earlier in the morning to pick it up?

FORCES: A dew yeah, ah, ah, ah on the ground. Um-huh.

IS: Thank you. Now…ahh am I disciplined at all? I’m asking it because of the thing that I have discussed.

FORCES: Well, well, it is…ah I hump, hump, I come through just this one time but you take advantage of you know…ah barrage with all sorts, umm, ah, ah disa, discipline, ah and, yes, ah would we, did consider discipline, there are many things that ah we… mhm, by all means, yes, I would say so. Um-hmm.

IS: Even on a physical level?

FORCES: Well, on a physical level certain elements and, ah yes, of course.

IS: Food is one of the elements?

FORCES: Oh yah, oh yes a lot of food elements are found.

IS: Not that I need more discipline?

FORCES: I, I didn’t say…no, not at all. Proper intake of it and moderation at times, yes, of course, but no, no major ah issues of it.

IS: I’m not an obese…like going to…

FORCES: Oh I, dreadful, no. I didn’t say that, no. No, ah, next question, oh boy…

IS: Ah in the Bible, the Old Testament and I found that also in the New Testament, where it says that the woman has to be subservient to man.

FORCES: Ah yeah, that’s a nice passage I seem to gravitate a lot to that one. Ah a woman needs to be obedient to her husband and so her husband, her husband ah can manifest the spirit adequately to glorify both of them. I’m not saying slaves, I’m just saying receptive to the husband’s guiding power.

IS: In that case, women’s’ liberation?

FORCES: Oh definitely, that’s not nice.

IS: Totally against?

FORCES: It’s not that… It is not a… It has it’s purpose but you know it’s not going to lead them into, I mean they’re nice, nice, nice people and all that, and they’re struggling awfully hard to express a desire for freedom and worthy worthiness, and they may mean well, but no, no,, no , no, no it’s not going to get them what they wanted, it is only, it’s only gonna cause … down right, I mean aggravation and a, not, not…ah no it’s not right.

IS: Now, this is a question that’s been on my mind for a long time…

FORCES: Oh…why, why do you want to bring it up now for I mean?


FORCES: Well , you know I really can’t stop any of, I mean, I’m not telling you to… Of course, I’m not telling you to ah… I haven’t told anybody not to ask the question here, I mean I, I frankly, I really , I mean I frankly I don’t I, well it’s up to you if you want to ask it.

IS: In the Bible, in the New Testament, I think is where I found it a negative connotation was the name principalities and powers.

FORCES: Oh yes…

IS: Well, why? I think it’s Paul that does all that.

FORCES: Well, Paul happens to be a very outspoken gentleman ah, ah. he had a couple of problems in the beginning and in ah, ah… which was very, you know bothersome to the, the Christians, or they what they called themselves Christians at the, at the early part of their cruci… I mean their beginnings of their camp, no ah…. developments and all. Ah Paul happened to be very nice spokesman in his right but, ah… he came across awfully sou, I mean bad. Ah yes principalities and ah, and deities and all that do, do, do happen… I mean, he did kind of construe it a little bit, ah but he ah, see he was into the meta, what we, you call metaphysics today, ah he, he was also into the occult ah, I mean he was very…reading ah (?) a great person, student and…

IS: Was he bitter because you didn’t speak through him?

FORCES: Ah bitter , no…ah, I, I, me speak to him ah?

IS: The Forces?

FORCES: The Forces. Well, I mean we spoke to him in an indirect way. We told him to get straight. I mean…um, yes, we spoke to him in a most positive way ah. He was a carry over from the ape I mean. Well ah yes, we did speak to him in length about his dealings and ah the way he carried in, but he indeed was a…he was alright, in the end he did his best ah, he didn’t do too much. I mean, he…Did his best for the cause of Christians, what they considered Christ, Christianity at that time um. As far as principalities and all that, yes, there, there are what would…well principalities…well, in short, there are dark forces and white forces. There are forces that we combat in this higher sphere and, and that’s, that’s part of the crumbled cookie…that’s part of the ah, ah wafer…I mean that’s, that’s how it is.

IS: And there are also called principalities and powers?

FORCES: Well, I mean they had the authority in the beginning and when they fell, they still had their own name, you know?

Q: So Satan or Lucifer was a principality as opposed to an Archangel?

FORCES: Unfortunately, yes, of course, they were in a very pow, power, powerful position and ah, I told them that, I well, should have never been put there. I mean, who are we to question?


FORCES: But ah, that’s, that’s a mistake, but we (?) how God is. I mean this, what you call God is very, very, you know ah…he knows what he’s doing. But you know ever since that move I tell ya…


FORCES: You know we learn to work with it, and ah…but God is… It’s no problem here, I mean — I mean, well, you know we do our best. I wouldn’t say anything wrong, you know what I mean? It has to be this way. Ah but ah…yes

IS: But isn’t it true that if God didn’t allow for principalities and powers also to be some of them black, neither would the white ones been able to work in this sphere?

FORCES: Oh well… We would had to, we well, of course I mean… unfortunately, we have this problem of the, you know, dumps standing over there but ah…oh well…

[Long pause]

FORCES: Ah, yes, we had…. Ah, what was the question?

IS: That if God didn’t allow for some principalities and powers…

FORCES: Oh yes, ah yes help you out um ah um, yes right yes um-hum.

IS: So, actually there is no mistake.

FORCES: Oh no. No mistake.

IS: Thank you. Now, suicide normally is a very bad thing…

FORCES: Very bad, yeah um-huh.

IS: But yet there are times under which, ah, it is a right thing to do, otherwise its cowardice not to do.

FORCES: Yeah, ah, go ahead.

IS: What are those circumstances?

FORCES: Um-huh, you know, we are being watched over…so make the question, you know nicer, easier. I mean um… I’m trying to be as helpful as I possibly can, if at first appearance ah… alright, alright, alright…ah question yes ah…

IS: An example?

FORCES: Yes I know, I know. well, (?) person walking down the street and sees someone getting murdered and (?) be walking down that street…and then he just goes over there and helps out, you know. And ah. see, I believe a person should do what he has to do and help out the situation as best as he can, and ah, but if he’s walking down the street and someones getting murdered, well he should get involved and try to prevent it from happening. But the most important thing is that…I can’t really come up with an adequate expression ah, explaining what would be a good suicide, I don’t understand your question.

IS: Well, okay. Well, what you’re saying of course, it’s a suicide but yet it’s not, it’s a sacrifice, it’s something else.

FORCES: Oh, sacrifice is something entirely different.

IS: And going over when a person is getting killed to help out, it might be suicide for the person that is helping, but it never the less is not really suicide, but it’s rather a help, a sacrifice.

FORCES: Correct.

IS: Now, would for instance, an occasion where, ah let’s say a spy is caught, rather than, he knows that he’ll break, rather than reveal things he kills himself. would that be right? This is the most common thing you know, when people kill themselves and then, for honor.

FORCES: Very strange question to answer. but we would not consider that as saving anything, ah it would be considered as suicide.

IS: Hm. How about then of a person lets say that is possessed by, bad things… very bad. That person knows that there is no way he can get rid of these things.

FORCES: No, there should never be a termination of the physical body by one’s own hands, there is always a chance and a hope somewhere that something would happen to correct it.

IS: Than Custard, you said something about he was too much of a coward to have killed himself.

FORCES: Well, ah I, I, but Custard was a good man ah in his own way, ah, ah, well, let’s say, ah, um, um, let’s say he could have killed himself.

IS: And would have been considered a suicide? An act of —

FORCES: Oh, definitely.

IS: Bravery?

FORCES: Oh no, no, no.

IS: So, actually there is no such a thing as a suicide under any circumstance…

FORCES: Oh no, no, no. No need for suicide. It’s not necessary, it’s unhealthy.

IS: Yeah, but there is no such a thing as under certain circumstances where suicide becomes sacrifice? I mean, you know, by his own hand?

FORCES: Well, anybody who kills himself, how can they be a sacrifice? No, no, no…it’s unhealthy, it’s not right, it’s not productive…

IS: Ah, the son of Sam, now…

FORCES: Oh him, oh-ho-ho-ho, oh ho -ho-ho…

IS: Is at this point, are you taking over?

FORCES: Oohh…ummm.

IS: Or is it another move of the (?)?

FORCES: Well, lets say it’s gonna be a strange ah inning. There are going to be lots of forces there and it’s going to be like a search for God happening.

IS: Yeah, because it looks that he’s gotten a chance to do either one of the two: either it’s the black forces again trying to take over others, or it’s the white forces trying to somehow bring to the consciousness of, people about these things.

FORCES: Definitely.

IS: So it’s both.

FORCES: Lets see how it happens as it works out. Ah people, ah I am, I am…going to end the conversation with your questions, ah as you know that I have been quite frank and open and reserved nothing from you, ah, ah people, I have tried to be as honest with my feelings and what is supposed to be given to you. Ah take what you see and utilize it and work with it, ah always strive to bring out the best within yourselves and be always productive and cooperative in the, the ah items…the items around…but ah always to do your best in what you have to do, and in doing so you’ll be okay, and ah, we will talk to you again soon and…

[tape cuts off]